Ethnic Gang Crime A sad indictment of Alan Jones 558

Rizzo

"Ethnic Gang Crime - A sad indictment of.."

You can't see a connection?

"I'm the person that's led this charge here" - Alan Jones, ibid

I'm sure the police will show some interest now that Jones has admitted to LEADING the racist rampage to "Bash Lebs and Wogs";

"come to North Cronulla to support the Leb and Wog bashing day." - Alan Jones, Howard's mouthpiece.

Sounds like incitement of Ethnic Gang Crime to me, you see it as something else?

Not really, I understand your broad position, it's rational and I respect your general stance. (Yes youth gangs are a problem to be dealt with) but with the racist Putsch so obvious, reference to anecdotal evidence is incendiary)

Do you mean you have snipped the history of racist gangs baiting and bashing Australians (isn't that the TOPIC?)

or were you implying that I was baiting a 'race'? As far as i'm concerned, there is only one, the human race, all the rest is best described by the actual attributes being used as an identifier; skin colour, ethnic origins, etc.

I was describing ethnic gang violence, and there was nothing "anecdotal" about it!

As I say, I have no problem with your broad views, as expressed in those posts. There is no shortage of those focusing on 'fixing the Lebanese community' and I have never liked to howl with the mob. capice?

And I'm not engaged in a personal attack on you, merely concerned about the convergence of two groups, because of reliance on 'anecdotal evidence' which ranges from concerns raised by police officers to "560 Lebanese Rapists are being coddled by corrupt police who do nothing at the bequest of the ALP"

You may be right about the need to rely on anecdotal evidence because you have no other! 8^o

But when you use anecdotal evidence you have a GREATER responsibility to provide source (for verification) and confirmation (multiple reliable sources) than normally required for an accusation that targets a specific ethnic group in circumstances where that entire group is itself target of 5000 violent racists thugs for which we have no trouble finding evidence. (Snip it as you may)

I am aware of charges being laid against the Cronulla rioters, mostly for buttault against persons (the evidence is abundant) and against those provoked to retaliate, mostly for offences against property.

I condemn both, based on evidence, verifiable, quantifiable, clearly showing which ethnic group is the largest, and the largest offender.

But the trouble with 'anecdotal' evidence is that any **** can make up anything, as all the racists do, and in the climate in which we find ourselves, using such can be incendiary, especially in Usenet

# The 'anecdotal evidence' in 1930 Germany was that the Jews # were dirty greedy polluters of Aryan culture who seduced # or raped decent white women and cheated everyone in business. # # The 'anecdotal evidence' in the Confederate US was that blacks were # lazy, stupid and seduced or raped decent white women. # # The 'anecdotal evidence' in Iran is that the USSA is The Great Satan # who kills muslims and seduces or rapes their own and everyone else's # women.

And as the each of those shows, you can always find some individual cases to support the argument.

Once the majority group in each of those cases focused on the target problem group, more and more anecdotes were observed. Hardly surprising is it?

So one thing that 'anecdotal evidence' obscures, is, "How do the examples quoted compare with the wider community?"

" The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they allow disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

- Attributed to Plato, but the attribution is false, as is much anecdotal evidence.

It circulated widely in the 60's, which might suggest that concerns about youth go back at least that far (note: BEFORE Multiculturalism Policy! - for the benefit of Reverend Headjob and ferdie! B^)

Anecdotally, prior to Cronulla, wasn't the largest youth riot in Sydney also a group of skips?

And the riots in WA? Same ethnic group.

I can see where your reliance on anecdotal evidence is taking us.

Can you?

I understand that. But those that carried it out, and those that actively support them, relied on 'anecdotal evidence', and they are just as certain that it is a well founded foundation as those who used it to such devastating effect against the Jews-Blacks-Americans I cited before.

My post is a warning. I'm posting in usenet aware that more people will read it than just the bloke I'm ostensibly replying to.

(If I take a mark over your shoulders with my knee in your back, it's because I think you have shoulders broad enough to bear it.. otherwise, apologies, but I'm playing on.... ;-)

Over 500 charges laid.

My old Dad used to recount tales of the way the Flying Squad dealt with Youth Gangs who tore pickets off fences and hopped into each other (this would be in the 30's and 40's, before much ethnic immigration)

The police simply beat the poo out of both gangs!

And as for the 'doctrine of spectators', he would say, to clarify my concept of personal responsibility;

"If you were there, you were in it!"

But it shows how long gang violence has been an issue...

perhaps there is something wrong with our culture!? B^p

You can see it in the photographic evidence you snipped; gutless wonders standing about egging on other gutless bustards who held down victims while still more gutless bastards kicked them.

It was a gang, organised in the previous week, by Nazis and racists using SMS and via Alan Jones Talkback radio;

Here's an 'anecdote' for you, about to become hard verifiable evidence:

# "Suspect in Sydney Riots Appears in Court" # # # SYDNEY, Australia, Dec. 20, 2005 # (AP) A security guard arrested by police investigating race # riots in Sydney had links to white supremacists, a prosecutor # said Tuesday at the man's court appearance. # # Andrew Sanders, 25, was arrested Monday after police # found a pistol, smoke grenades and pepper spray in a # raid on his Sydney home.

Some more anecdotes;

"Sydney riots prompt travel warnings" Daily Telegraph 21-12-2005

An overreaction? People often do on hearsay! B^p

But sydney gangs have been talked about for DECADES!

"What we have witnessed in Sydney is the clash of two despicable gang subcultures. The first is the surfie gang subculture that has stalked many of SydneyÕs beaches for decades. Back in the 1960s and 1970s, Sydney beaches hosted ongoing skirmishes between ÒsurfiesÓ and ÒrockersÓ. These were essentially turf wars on sand. In more recent times, weÕve seen the emergence of the Bra Boys, a beach gang from Maroubra, who have long claimed ownership of the beaches and have never been shy when it comes to a brawl. Perhaps the worst example was in 2002 when a punch-up involving 120 surfies and police ended with 30 police sustaining injuries, including broken jaws and noses.

Of course, the second subculture is that of the Lebanese gangs that have risen to prominence in the past five years in SydneyÕs south-west. We are more familiar with this scourge because it has received far greater media coverage. You have probably heard of the shootings at police stations and the gang rapes that dominated the headlines in the early part of this decade.

Both gang cultures are wholly alien to their respective communities. Lebanese gang culture is as reflective of Lebanese Australia as the surfie gangs are of wider Australian society. And this is partly why they are so difficult to reign in."

Prejudiced means to PRE-JUDGE, which is what you do when anecdotal evidence is relied upon, rather than a TRIAL and a CONVICTION!

Sorry if you don't like to hear it.

Not so, when I jump all over someone they usually know it.

I thought I was just firm enough to get your attention, and play to the peanut gallery, who always need a bit of theatre.

That's the concern I am drawing attention to.

How can that be all there is. The rapes and bashings should have hospital records, the complaints to police should be on file, even if no charges were laid. It just doesn't smell right!

What have you read about the Bra Boys, a decades old youth gang problem? Not f***ing much. It's equally anecdotal, but far less public.. And the ENTIRE Skip community, of which you and I are priveleged members, never gets held responsible for them.. or for the Hells Angels, specialising in amphetamines and young girls. But the Lebanese, not just their youth gangs, but the ENTIRE community, are under the gun.

So for a start, we all READ a lot more about them.

Illustrative Question; have you heard about this youth gang, below? if not, why not? How long have they been operating? Why is the focus on violent youth gangs apparently slanted on ethnicity?

"Gang attacks Family Home" - Herald Sun 16-1-2006

"A couple and their two young children cowered in terror as dozens of drunken teenagers laid siege to their home and ute on the Gold Coast."

Members of a mob of about 200 youths went on a rampage at Palm Beach on Saturday.

They hurled bricks at the home, smashed and torched their ute and threatened to kill them.

Eight teenagers were arrested and charged with street offences.

Palm Beach-based Gold Coast councillor Daphne Mc Donald said she did not know whether a curfew was the answer but youth gangs were totally out of control in the suburb, recently causing thousands of dollars damage at a council playground."

Now, I can't see any ethnicity mentioned, which makes one suspect it could have been Anglo youth, because they are the only one's who are typically referred to WITHOUT the ethnic identifier! 8^o

How does that effect perceptions in the community?

Agreed, when the sources are reliable. Most of the 'anecdotal evidence' posted isn't. Hence my discussion about the GREATER need for verifiability and credibility of sources, and multi-sourcing for anecdotal hearsay, compared to tendered evidence leading to conviction.

I have no problems with questions, based on clearly identified events, looked at in context.

Was that the night of the Cronulla Riot?

I think the rational discussion is occurring, just not sure that much of it is happening in Usenet, where the main struggle is outing organized neo-fascist groups who would like to turn the issue into an overture to RAHOWA.

--

"There is a fundamental distinction between multicultural and Multiculturalism, which racists constantly and deliberately confuse.

A society is multicultural if it has more than one culture being practised within that society.

'Multicultural - A society which embraces a number of minority cultures' - Macquarie Dictionary

Multiculturalism is two things, the -ISM indicates that it is a set of beliefs or ideas about multiculture, ie a recognition of multicultural REALITY, an acceptance of it, a celebration of it. But it is ALSO a set of government policies to formalize that recognition, acceptance and celebration! Thus the Howard government has a Department which documents the positive economic social and foreign policy benefits from having a successful, open, democratic multicultural society."

- fasgnadh

Australia have come from different cultures, and live different lives that could be categorised into groups if you chose to do so.

a governmental level"

- Rev. Headjob, liar and thief demonstrating the deliberate confusion.

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