Jochen Lueg
The last time I looked most of the Billion plus Chirstians referred to their Holy Book as the Bible, and it included the Old and the New Testaments.
Now it is true that there is dispute among them as to which books are included, and the original texts were not as accurately preserved as the Qur'an.. but the Qur'an endorses the Bible as a Holy text.. so there is no need to quibble about a few inaccuracies and missing chapters.
And did not Jesus say he had come not to destroy the Law but to fufil it? Matt 5:17
Which of the Laws i'm referring to were revoked, and which ones are still in force?
Eating shellfish now appears Kosher, (it is not what goes into your mouth that counts but what comes out of it) but previously encountered harsh punishment.. what changed?
Oh I agree with you, But many Christians don't, They apply O.T. thinking rigidly and punitively. God's revelation is Progressive, the eternal truths restated with each revelation, but contemoporary rules-for--living altered to suit changing circumstances. And God disposes as he wills.
But, are you sure which of the old testament laws are EXPLICITLY abrogated by Christ..? or do we need to read the WHOLE of the new Testament and read the Old in the SPIRIT of the New, and dialogue with one another about meaning and how to apply it?
Because, my friend, that is what fundamentalists, of all stripes, refuse to do, and they claim Biblical basis for all kinds of O.T. horrors, and their numbers are growing as the liberal, loving, tolerant, tradition declines everywhere.. (Not just in Christianity, but globally)
That is why it is incredible to see modern Pharisees and Sadducees (deliberately?) misrepresenting atrocious mistranslations of the Qur'an in order to attack it! 8^o
Well of course! Even in the Catholic Church the reformation has taken place! It was exceedingly Bloody, though, don't you think? and took a very long time.
Islam is about as many centuries from it's Prophet Founder's revelation as Christianity was when it went it's Dark Age. 8^o
Do you see a pattern here? ;-)
For everything ..turn turn turn.. there is a season.. turn turn turn..
Spiritual springtime, full summer, autumn, winter.. a natural cycle..
Dark Ages! They actually named the period after it's character! {shudder} How could that happen to a religion Divinely inspired by Jesus, (Blessed be his name}? Oh, in the same way and about the same timeframe as with the followers of Mohammed {P.B.U.H}.
But there is a link between them.. the European Renaissance occurred AFTER the birth of Islam and was informed by that spiritual flowering.. Ibn Sienna (Avicenna), Al Gibra(Algebra), Al Khorisme (Algorithm), the Lute {el Oud), Hospitals, Chivalry, Harveys circulation of the blood... and the preservation by Islamic scholars of the Greek clbuttics..
Co-inciding with their spiritual stagnation ( a parallel to Europe's earlier one ) they were hit by colonialization.
They are yet to have their reformation. Perhaps they won't make it.
In my view the West owes them help with it, not more colonial oil wars.. whats the Christian viewpoint, in your view?
Ah, what a debt we owe to Islam there.
It's as if something offered to one group, say the Jews, was taken up by another, the Gentiles.. as if the light moves from one lamp to anmother... and what the Muslims shared with the world, in the flowering of their faith, is now held from them, newly bound by patent law, multinationals, oil wars, and, there can be no doubt.. the regressive grip of mullahs who exercise political power as the Church once did.
The Popes never gave up the temporal power of the Holy Roman Empire.. it was wrested from them.
Why? ,,hasn't our 2000 year Christian culture practised hanging and child beating and war, treated women as chattels, kept slaves and refused both the vote.. for the vast majoprity of that time?
I thought it shows cultures are capable of change, even religious ones, eventually.. and despite immense suffering.. and yet you still seem keen to Burn the Witch...
Ask the Holy Catholic popes who sat for centuries listening to the angelic castrati and nodding over dowries.
Aren't you confusing culture, including tribal accretions, with spiritual teachings?
I have nmet many muslims.. I have never met ANY who practice childhood castration or forced marriage. But then, you are probably playing safe to regard the Samaritans as lesser beings than yourself. Being as holy as the Chosen People are.
Are you watching the USA?
How many low IQ youths did George Bush execute?
What do the religious conservatives do to people in Abu Ghraib?
Is Guatenamo part of the US or not?
What is the biblical basis for killing 100,000 Iraqi men women and children.
Have you read the history of South America?
What was Christian about Vietnam..
Now.. when did muslims invade YOUR country, kill 100,000, torture and impose themselves as rulers?
Give me the Caliphate, rather than that example of Christian Enlightenment!
Sure, and the USSA has been happy to arm them to the teeth when it suited them.
These are POLITICAL machinations, and the religious of all stripes are victims of the fundies and the American New World Order.
Your point?
When have we ever done that?
The Romans invadsed Britain.. Christianity seeped in, new Christians invaded.. the Normans.. new societies are formed constantly.. I thought Jesus taught us to live as brothers.. can't you see how that can be done?
Perhapos you should look more closely at Mecca during pilgrimage.. every land, every ethnic group.. seems to work.. can't you keep up?
Whose law do you claim Gods laws should not apply to?
There wasn't unavoidable strife under the Moors.
The Jews fled Christian Spain to live under Muslim tolerance.
Are you saying we can't do as well as medieval Muslim societies in achieving multicultural, multiracial, multiethnic harmony and tolerance? pish tush..
Australia is already achieving it!
Oh dear.. no wonder Islam continues to ouitgrow Christianity.. you have lost steam and vision.
