Chelsea messageboard on 25th may 3641

Yes they accept the result, but they do not always accept that the result was fair or deserved. They do not accept that the result is fair and objective in respect to the game.

So people can say what they like now? No more gagging orders till the cabinet has the right trophy in it?

Btw, dont confuse people acepting the result and people acepting it as a fair and objective result.

So if Liverpool beating what you call a "decent" team "ultimatly means nothing", then why bother saying it Dan? I mean you like all the subjective stuff when its the "glorious path" and "we beat the mighty so and so", but sudenly it's not valid and people should keep quiet when it's not to your liking.

Sorry I was just thrown by the idea that football is a game. What a plantshell :-)

But i never said my opinion would affect the result Dan. I am saying that the truth about a game is not always reflected in the result. Do try and keep up ;-)

So people arguing about the fairness of a result cannot change the result? f***ing hell another plantshell! How do you keep comming up with this stuff dan?

Btw where on earth did you get the idea that I was arguing that my opinion was so highly valued that it would influence UEFA to overturn the result of the ECL final?

Perhaps it would be better if you *THOUGHT* about what you are trying to say before you pbutt it on to me.

What was it you were you saying about repeating oneself Dan?

What was it you were you saying about repeating oneself Dan?

You flip burgers precisely? Sounds a bit obsessive to me :-)

What was it you were you saying about repeating oneself Dan?

Blah blah blah blah... Does it realy irk you that much?

Wrong, you have said...

"Win the big pot yourselves and then you have the right to say"

oops them some backpedaling produced

" "win the big pot yourselves; only then will you have earned the right to legitimately comment"

ect....

Everyone has a right to an opinion, and the validity of that opinion is dependant on the content of that opinion. Their clubs trophy cabinet has f*** all to do with either. And if you cannot conceed that you were wrong on this point then you need psychiatric help.

No, i have been arguing that the result is not the complete truth and that arguments and reason are valuable in getting a more acurate analysis of the game.

You like results, i like truth. Oh except I bet you moan about refs decisions and luck when it goes against you, dont you?

Cliff Richard is the most sucessfull British recording artist of all time. Doesn't stop him being a boring cunt!

How's that for obtuse?

Oblong dear boy.

A reasonable argument is an argument that is coherant, to be more reasonable it has to contain less contraditions than the counter argument. That is what reason is. For somone to be unreasonable they have to be willfully blind or ignorant of inconsistencys or contradictions in their argument.

For example.

Someone who discounts all subjective opinion one minute, and then goes on to offer subjective opinions the next is unreasonable.

Reason is not context dependent! It is rational, logical analysis. Being biased to ones own team is an emotional phenonenom, not a logical one. Reason is impartial. Yes emotional bias can get in the way, people can be partisan, but the point of talking, arguing, and using reason is to filter out such things.

You know, my brother in law is a Liverpool fan and he hates Manutd with a vengance. The few times I've watched Liverpool v United with him he has been hurling abuse at the tv and calling us cheats ect... But after the game I can have a perfectly reasonable conversation with him and our respecitve bias doesnt get in the way at all.

Strange huh? I mean you think it would be utterly pointless and we'd never agree on anything, eh Dan?

And no doubt we can all think of games where the result was utterly at odds with what would have been a fair result? Your home game against Chelsea in the EPL last season for example? I remember a hell of alot of liverpool fans compaining about that result.

Oh right, but they were probably using that insane variety of reason, eh Dan?

Also people often believe what they find most comforting. "Results are all that matter" for example.

We might not vote, but we have opinions on what was fair. For example, even most of the arse fans admited we were unlucky to lose the FA Cup final last season. Likewise they have the starkly oposite opinion regarding the EPL game at old traford earlier in the season.

So there are two instances when "the result" was not objectively recognized as the "indicator of truth".