Hey pumparse ... 648

Of course it is. Anyone who wants to make claims on truth has to provide evidence and argument to back those claims up.

At least that is the way of things with 'Enlightened free thinking' people.

Well scientist are constantly breaking new ground, explaining more and more, which could be why religion needs things like the Turin Shroud.

Of course Science will never explain everything, but it's doing a million times better than the bible is.

You find the idea that it is a forgery more laugable than the idea that it was created by some supernatural process?

You know that art historians still argue over how the mona lisa was painted? Nobody has been able find a technique that duplicates the incredibly fine effect of Da Vincis' painting.

Not that i think Da Vinci had anything to do with the shroud. But the fact that somthing is curently unexplainable does not mean it is more likely to be supernatural.

That is what i refered to, how the image came to be there.

There have been quite a few demonstrations (see wikipedia) of how to create an image in negative. It is plausable that someone with more skill and more time could practice and improve on those methods.

It is not inplausable that it could be a fake.

Sounds convincing, at least that the blood stains contained real blood of a man who suffered a violent rest. Narrows it down a bit i guess ;-)

I never claimed to be an expert. Just from what you have writen, and from what i have read online there is little hard fact, there is a lot of flakey and differing evidence, and a hell of a lot of conjecture.

And yet you're the one resorting to insults and sarcasm. Not very christian of you is it.

The first sample was suposedly of later material, the second could only date the cloth to be at least 1300 years old, posibly twice that.

A lot of the tests and research, the pollen for example, was done 20-30 years ago.

A couple of samples, as evidenced by the wildly inacurate dating, is obviously not enough.

That seems to have pbutted you by Pope.

Calm down Pope, thumb your rosary for a while, think of the baby Jesus.

Can i ask you, if you are a Christian, why are you such a cunt? I realy dont mean that as an insult, i just wonder how you make your belief in god fit with the way you treat people. You seem devoid of kindness, forgiving, you seem very judgmental. ect...